How Open Relationships Can Work

[Violet]

So you are have this great girl and she’s cool with you sleeping with other women, but the thought of her being with other men is making your skin crawl. Jealousy has reared its ugly head! It doesn’t have to be this way. Let me explain…

An open relationship is wonderful when you know that your primary is with you because they truly want to be. Non-monogamy is not the same thing as cheating, so once you eliminate the idea that her having sex with someone else is a betrayal, you will be able to embrace it as another source of happiness and fulfillment for your treasured girlfriend. Knowing that they have other options, and other outlets for sex and intimacy, but choose to be with you affirms your relationship. So knowing she's seeing other people, even if one of them is her ex, shouldn't be a problem for you at all.

Someone said ‘A girl is only with a guy if she wants to be, nothing you do or say now that you are actually in the relationship is going to "make" her stay with you'. This is true. You can't 'make' anyone stay with you. My ‘primary’ and I, if we're in the same city, spend practically every night sleeping in the same bed because we want to, not because we don't have other options. We are with each other because we choose to be. I have my own apartment that we use as a guest house for out of town visitors, and of course it's great to have a place to go if we have separate ‘play dates’, but I have never spent the night there, and knowing that we are together because it's our choice makes our bond that much stronger. We don't feel threatened or have any problems with who each other chooses to spend time and have sex with, even exes. At the end of the day, we know we are coming home to each other. We both know that we choose to be there, and nothing is going to change that. No one can 'steal' him away from me, just as I can't be 'stolen' away from him because we are not owned by each other. I am not his property, just as he is not mine, but through open and honest communications we do make our choices with each other's best interests in mind.

I don't have insecurity, territoriality, or jealousy, and knowing my primary (or any of my lovers) is out with someone else causes me no feelings of inadequacy or fear of losing him. It is no threat to our sex life, intimacy, commitment or love; in fact, it only helps to *strengthen* these things. Knowing that his sexual encounters and intimacy with other girls satisfies him in ways I couldn't singularly, generates my appreciation for these girls who help make my guy so happy. His being happy is what makes me feel truly exultant, and whether his happiness it's caused my my influences or someone else's or a mix of both (which it usually is) doesn't matter.

Here’s something else to consider. Women's desires vary, depending on where they are in their ovulation cycle. Something that 'gets her going' one day is sometimes so drastically different in a couple of days or even the next day, that it is unreasonable to expect complete sexual satisfaction from just one partner.

This is especially true in my case because my primary partner is a true alpha male. I could never expect him to be 'good-to-go' every day and in every way that I need, just as I could never fulfill all of his needs and desires exclusively. Knowing that he is out with someone having a great time sexually, (especially because it completely 'recharges his batteries' and he comes home with even more sexual vigor for me), makes me feel so content. I'm not saying this will work for everyone, but it certainly works well for us!

Besides, on top of all that, I know my guy is the most amazing lover that I've ever had, and probably will be for most of the girls he sees as well. It not only makes me so proud to know how gratified he's making these other girls, it turns me on thinking about it. It's also a big turn on to have three- (or more) -somes where we get to show off our sexual prowess and enjoy the delights of our happiness and sexuality together.


~Violet~

[TonySoprano]

Yeah, it is not cheating unless you agreed to be exclusive. Makes things much more realistic and simple. Plus it makes you alot calmer not trying to control someone else and letting them do what makes them feel good and you could also be free at the same time while still being secure with each other.

[Nate Volk]

Originally Posted by Violet

Besides, on top of all that, I know my guy is the most amazing lover that I've ever had, and probably will be for most of the girls he sees as well. It not only makes me so proud to know how gratified he's making these other girls, it turns me on thinking about it. It's also a big turn on to have three- (or more) -somes where we get to show off our sexual prowess and enjoy the delights of our happiness and sexuality together.


~Violet~

You have a very progressive, centered, and evolved outlook. I think it is great personally.

Obviously indicative of someone who is basically self-validated.

Keep posting please.

[cyrano]

Well we have to admit that Johnny seems to have a very tight game.

However I think an open relationship is not recommended with an average guy because his women will have way more option than him unless he has a tight game.
Another thing is that you are in the adult entertainment industry so I would guess that you can seperate sex from emotions or work from emotions/attachment.

However, for most of women, if a couple gets into an open relationship and the women dates a guy that makes her orgasms stronger than her bf and takes her to new heights there is a chance that she develops attachment feelings to the way he makes her feel and there is a high chance that she leaves her bf.

I would say that for the everyday women, she can only be infatuated and madly in love with one man at a time, two is too much to handle emotionally on the long run. what would you say?

Here’s something else to consider. Women's desires vary, depending on where they are in their ovulation cycle. Something that 'gets her going' one day is sometimes so drastically different in a couple of days or even the next day, that it is unreasonable to expect complete sexual satisfaction from just one partner.

Could you please elaborate on this for it seems that you are quite aware about the effects of your own hormones and you know a lot about female pyschology.

thanks!

[Violet]

Cyrano: please see this thread where I replied to you, and I think what I wrote there also explains the nature of open relationships and why there is no threat - it is the same whether in the adult industry or not, because the open part is communication. So important!


As for getting into Ovulation cycles and women's tastes changing - it's a biggie, but I am very tired right now, so I'll do my best to remember to post about it next time around. I think I'll start a new thread, even.


~Violet~

[Leobabel]

Great post and great way of explaining it!!

This is why I always say that I don´t have girlfriends, only Lovers... Some people seem to take it well, others seem to have a problem... Who cares, anyway?

[Johnny Soporno]

Originally Posted by cyrano

Well we have to admit that Johnny seems to have a very tight game.

My 'Game' is the game of Life - and I'm at the top of my game

Originally Posted by cyrano

However I think an open relationship is not recommended with an average guy because his women will have way more option than him unless he has a tight game.

Cyrano, there are thousands of women desperate for every worthwhile man; a quality man ALWAYS has more options than a woman does, as far as sexual partners go, because women INTUITIVELY UNDERSTAND that any part of a WINNER is better than ALL of a loser - and 99%+ of men are losers.

It's simple enough to transition from being a loser to a winner - it's a matter of making the decision to handle your life yourself, and to embrace psychological independence, enjoy happiness, and strive for self-satisfaction.

Originally Posted by cyrano

Another thing is that you are in the adult entertainment industry so I would guess that you can separate sex from emotions or work from emotions/attachment.

However, for most of women, if a couple gets into an open relationship and the women dates a guy that makes her orgasms stronger than her bf and takes her to new heights there is a chance that she develops attachment feelings to the way he makes her feel and there is a high chance that she leaves her bf.

That's actually MORE likely in a closed-relationship, when the girl, in frustration and disappointment at her partner's lack-of-sexual-enthusiasm, sleeps with exciting strangers she meets while she's ovulating.

The 'openness' describes the communications within the relationship more than permissiveness to external sexual dalliances. By maintaining open communications and being strictly and fundamentally honest together, a couple can avoid self-sabotaging by second-guessing each other, jumping to conclusions about each others' motives, and brooding senselessly.

Originally Posted by Cyrano

I would say that for the everyday women, she can only be infatuated and madly in love with one man at a time, two is too much to handle emotionally on the long run. what would you say?

Infatuation is fleeting, lasting generally somewhere between a few hours, and maybe eighteen months at the far end. It is buoyed-up by hormonal chemicals and neurotransmitters like oxytocin, dopamine, serotonin, and others which flood the synapses of those struck with 'new car scent/fresh-new-love' infatuation. We call this 'madly in love' because it's NOT RATIONAL OR REASONABLE - it's madness. But it sure is fun, and addictive, like any other mind-altering chemistry one might choose to enjoy... and it plays out about the same way, too.

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Could you please elaborate on this for it seems that you are quite aware about the effects of your own hormones and you know a lot about female psychology.

Violet pointed me at this thread, and asked me to take a shot at explaining things for everyone's sake, so I'm going to try to give you a working framework which might help?

Randy Thornhill, Professor of Cultural Anthropology & Evolutionary Psychology, University of New Mexico
The Functional Design and Phylogeny of Women's Dual Sexuality: Estrus and Extended Sexuality

Recent research questions the conventional wisdom about the evolution of women's sexuality. Women have two functionally distinct sexualities. At the fertile phase of the cycle, women prefer male traits that may mark superior genetic quality. At infertile cycle phases, women prefer men willing to invest resources in a mate. Women's peri–ovulatory sexuality is homologous with estrus in other vertebrates and estrus likely arose first in the species ancestral to vertebrates. Thus, contrary to conventional wisdom, women have not lost estrus, and human estrus likely functions to get a sire of superior genetic quality, which is the evolved function of estrus throughout the vertebrates. Women's sexuality outside estrus is extended sexuality. It appears to function, as in other taxa with this type of sexuality, to get material benefits from males. Also contrary to conventional wisdom, men perceive and respond to women's estrus, including by increased mate guarding. Men's response is limited compared to other vertebrate males, implying co-evolutionary history of selection on females to conceal estrus from men and selection on men to detect it. Research indicates that women's concealed estrus is an adaptation to conditionally copulate with men other than the pair–bond partner. Women's sexual ornaments–the estrogen–facilitated features of face and body–appear to be honest signals of individual quality pertaining to future reproductive value.

It is unreasonable to expect women to be monogamous, full-stop.

It's contrary to their evolutionary biology, and it's their hormones (NOT THEIR EMOTIONS!) which alter their perception of reality, and thereby incite them to 'stray' from their 'nesting partner' (pair-bonded mate), and seek out unfamiliar males to impregnate her, thereby reducing the risk of incestuous copulation WHILE FERTILE - in fact, its reasonable to presume that her 'pair-bonded' mate (who presumes he's the father of her offspring, and as such, BECOMES so) might be as closely related to her as her brother, or half-brother, in prehistoric times.

The female's biological drive is to collect as many sperm from as many promising donors as are around, when she's ovulating - so long as she done what suggests she'll become pregnant, she's satisfied - and she becomes turned-off by her own 'familiar' males' scents (Familiar = of or like one's family).

CONSIDER:

Women have an approximately 28 day reproductive cycle, 23-25 days of which their hormones operate very similarly to males. Somewhere around the 10th-14th day after menstruation (bleeding begins) their ovulation begins, and their hormones alter radically; they begin to crave a VERY different pheromonal imprint to that which attracts them the rest of the month, and they become overwhelmed with sexual enthusiasm for alternative, masculine scents and appearances. After this ovulation period (technically 'estrus') ends, they return to their previous hormonal state, OR, IF IMPREGNATED, they become tremendously enamoured of a familiar (ie, like their family) male, whom they will select as a 'nesting partner' and who will undoubtedly presume himself the father of the impending offspring.

A penis has evolved as a natural "plunger", designed to pull-out the previous sperm-donor's deposit, and thereby increase the likelihood of his own being successful;

Every man's sperm cells fight off (kill!) rival sperm cells from alternative donors (a la 'Sperm Wars' - google it for details) which implies that they have evolved to do so;

Women require approximately five times longer sexual stimulation than the average male provides (15 mins vs. 3 mins) AND when the male climaxes, he passes-out, thereby providing the female (still aroused and energetic) to seek out an alternate male to continue the mating process - this might require MANY males in order for the female to reach satisfaction, thereby ensuring sperm competition, and enhancing the vitality of the species in the process.

It is critical to understand that there are three discreet aspects to every child's paternity:

Biological Father (ie, successful sperm donor)

Nominal Father (ie, the 'father of record', the one who's surname the offspring is assigned)

Actual [or 'de facto'] Father (ie, the one who accepts the ROLE of 'father' and provides for/nurtures/protects the child, and whom the child envisions as 'daddy'.

Now, in an ideal world, all three aspects are presumed to be the same man; at least, according to 'polite society'.
But human evolution suggests different and that PRIOR to easy-access to birth control pills/condoms, the odds weren't good that more than two of the three aspects were the same man.

BUT TWO OUT OF THREE AIN'T BAD! And if you raise a child as your child, and love it as your child, are proud of it as your child, and IT BELIEVES YOU ARE IT'S DADDY -- then you are its father, in every significant respect.

Virtually all of the fundamentals of male/female interactions are founded in the notion that men OWN women, and that therefore their children will be THEIR OWN.

This has lead to incredible misogyny and resentment throughout the ages as women have struggled to keep the true heredity of their children from the man who mistakenly presumed biological paternity.

Make no mistake, women DO follow their natures - they just hide it VERY well.... Woman's "chastity" is JUST good public relations.

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[cyrano]

Johnny I agree with everything you said and it makes sens since it's similar to other mamals in a sens however what you said here:

Make no mistake, women DO follow their natures - they just hide it VERY well.... Woman's "chastity" is JUST good public relations.

is the same as saying: people do follow their selfish and egotistical nature (i.e. seeking their self-interest as selfishly as possible regardless of other people's interests ex: in a dog eat dog world) but they cooperate instead for good public relations (i scartch your back you scratch mine) and because there are laws.

If I see a hot sexy women, what urges to not rape her is my education/upringing and the idea that this is a crime. Women can easily overcome their cheating habits by excercising self control and their will power. If you are on a diet you fight the urge to eat junk food at first then with time you control your impulses (or not!)

Not all cultures encourage women to sleep around freely because most likely, most men will NOT support someone else's child, I know I wont.

In north america, we see the topic of SEXUAL STISFACTION ( not just sex) everywhere. it's all about getting the next kick and the new heights, sex and with as much partners as possible has become a drug... now we can be slaves to our emotions, instincts or pleasures or we can seek to conrol them. this is what differenciate us from the animal kingdom, the power free will, the examination of our actions and making choices (i.e. rationality).


I personally think that there has to be adultry laws and paternity fraud laws.

ex: my wife cheats on me with you (you cad you ;-) ) well, guess what I don't want to raise your kid johnny and I don't want to have to pay alimony or child support. because she broke the contract.

In some countries they are a bit more extreme (in iran, you can be executed for adultry, specially if you are a female). I definitely do not advocate this extreme harsh punishment but on the other hand I would not embrace an idea that one should live like a roman orgy with no conscience or morals/ethics and just live according to his instinctual impulses...

it might sound righteous but I m not trying to be, I m just saying that there should be a balance, an equilibrium so that freedom of choice does not become chaos because one should take responsibility and accountability for his own choices and I see this less and less in the female gender. We can't say "oh women are exempted in certain areas because they are not as rational as men and have PMS" that demeans women. If we are going to punish date rape, how about we punish paternity fraud, looks just like another form of rape to me!

[Johnny Soporno]

Originally Posted by cyrano

Johnny I agree with everything you said and it makes sens since it's similar to other mammals in a sense, however what you said here:

is the same as saying: people do follow their selfish and egotistical nature (i.e. seeking their self-interest as selfishly as possible regardless of other people's interests ex: in a dog eat dog world) but they cooperate instead for good public relations (I scratch your back - you scratch mine) and because there are laws.

Good! We understand each-other Overwhelmingly, excepting for those who are more enlightened, that is human nature.

Originally Posted by cyrano

If I see a hot sexy women, what urges me to not rape her is my education/upringing and the idea that this is a crime.

Actually, you've got that COMPLETELY backwards!

You have fallen victim to the notion that sexual rape is a natural phenomenon, and retro-anthropomorphized an exclusively human experience which only exists as an artifact; exclusively a result of mens' belief that woman are property.

[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=rape]:

rape (v.) c.1386, "seize prey, take by force," from Anglo-Fr. raper, O.Fr. raper "to seize, abduct," a legal term, from L. rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid). L. rapere was used for "sexual violation," but only very rarely; the usual L. word being stuprum, lit. "disgrace." Sense of "sexual violation or ravishing of a woman" first recorded in Eng. as a noun, 1481 (the noun sense of "taking anything -- including a woman -- away by force" is from c.1400). The verb in this sense is from 1577. Rapist is from 1883.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzpNumA6uU4 (Safe For Work)

Throughout nature, males wait until females indicate their interest in being fertilized, and upon receiving that signal, they attempt to satisfy her call - occasionally needing to overcome obstacles in the form of alternative sperm-donors.

Occasionally they will presume they have received these signals IN ERROR - perhaps from an unwilling female, another male, a corpse, a stuffed-animal, whatever...

The females ARE NOT BEING RAPED, even if there are an alarming number of participants - that is simply the biologically vetted method of ensuring the species survives - a 'gang bang', not a rape.

Whereas YOU have asserted that you WOULD forcibly have sex with a woman because you found her attractive, IF NOT for societal restriction?

Originally Posted by cyrano

Women can easily overcome their cheating habits by exercising self control and their will power...
...we can be slaves to our emotions, instincts or pleasures or we can seek to control them. This is what differentiates us from the animal kingdom, the power free will, the examination of our actions and making choices (i.e. rationality).

The issue here is NOT whether the woman can overcome her urges nor will choose not to cheat, it's about whether of not she PERCEIVES that she should remain chaste. Her hormones LITERALLY operate as a hallucinogenic drug, altering her perceptions - and thereby convincing her that she ought to do things which she might otherwise choose not to do.

Originally Posted by cyrano

...most men will NOT support someone else's child, I know I wont.

It's a shame that you take that attitude. Odds aren't bad that you WILL ultimately end up supporting a child which is not genetically related to you, but you won't know NOR CARE about it (unless you request DNA tests!).

Originally Posted by cyrano

I personally think that there have to be adultery laws and paternity fraud laws.

ex: my wife cheats on me with you (you cad you ;-) ) well, guess what I don't want to raise your kid Johnny and I don't want to have to pay alimony or child support because she broke the contract.

I agree that marriage (or equiv.) contracts should be respected by their participants, or by civil litigation in cases where economics are concerned.

Originally Posted by cyrano

We can't say "oh women are exempted in certain areas because they are not as rational as men and have PMS" that demeans women.

It most-definitely doesn't demean women - the OVERRIDING notion of women's being less rational than men is erroneous and demeaning - but it's critical to acknowledging that women AREN'T MEN, and should not be held to 'moral codes' which were designed for men when women WERE JUST PROPERTY.

Originally Posted by cyrano

If we are going to punish date rape, how about we punish paternity fraud, looks just like another form of rape to me!

We don't really even punish date rate, except when charges are brought by women... FAR more men are 'date raped' by women than women are by men, but men are expected to keep quiet about it.

Consider the last time you didn't want to have sex with a woman when SHE wanted to....

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

[cyrano]

You do have strong arguments however, the same way some men can withhold their urges and not cheat on their partners, some women can control their urges and not cheat on theirs.

there is temptation from both sides to cheat however if some men can do it, I'm sure some women can do it... I want a women that can control her emotions and body and not the other way around.