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     Why Don't Women Take Responsibility For Anything?


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Old 11-05-2009   #1
thepokemontrainer
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Unhappy Why Don't Women Take Responsibility For Anything?

(I understand that this post may seem a bit harsh towards women, but this is a topic that is curious to me. I have no intentions of offending or being aggressive towards women at all and if anyone takes offense to this I beg a thousand pardons).

Okay, you can scream mysogyny or chauvinism, but I've noticed something: women absolutely hate taking responsibility for anything (in my experience, anyway). It seems like everytime something happens negatively between a woman and I it's always my fault! WTF? Guys avoid taking the blame too, but when the fighting is done, sometimes the guy will go back and say "oh I could see how I could have been too needy/cruel/insensitive/low-level pokemon. Really, in my experience, I have never met a woman who will accept full responsibility for anything. From what I have seen, women always twist or redirect something to look like the fault of someone or something else. Getting a woman to take total responsibility for something is like trying to teach Magikarp to use Thunderbolt. In other words, it can't be done.

Let's look at an example of this in the form of an online dialogue with some history.

I met a really cute girl at a party last week. She was really swell, and we flirted and teased each other for a while, but she had to leave the party early to help her roommate. We took some pictures together before we left and we found each other on facebook and I added her. Later, I got her number while we had a little chat on facebook, and a day later I set up a date with her at Starbucks on friday. Today, after picking her brain for a while, she revealed that she had a boyfriend in NY (many thousansads of miles away from here). My friend had told me that this girl had broken up with this NY boyfriend many months ago, so I was undaunted. But I later learned that there were at least two other guys other than me in the picture, and it was only by chance that I found this out. I wasn't really mad at her, but I felt like I had been led on, and I let her know of my disapproval in the Facebook message I sent her. Here's the exchange:

Me:

Hi, Misty! Listen, you're a really nice girl. You're cute and really funny. I like you, so I think I need to be fair and honest with you. I was interested in you romantically, but I am beginning to understand how things are going with you, and it's not what I want for myself.

I didn't know you had a boyfriend, I found out from another source that you didn't have one, and plus you didn't say anything to me at first, and you had lots of opportunity to do so. I don't think it is wrong if you see other men while you have a boyfriend in NY, but personally, I am not interested in sharing you with other guys. You seem to be looking for mostly a sexual relationship, and I want more than that. I need a real girlfriend, not just someone to sleep with. Please understand. If you get rid of the other guys someday and you still want to see me, I will consider it.

Please understand that I think you are an awesome person, but it doesn't seem like you can give me what I want from a girl right now. I don't look down on you or have any contempt for you, I just need something else.

Love and respect,

Ash.


Her:

Hey what I have to claim is that I only treat you as a friend. Moreover, I think I was going to meet a friend, I never ever think it as a date or something. You get me totally wrong. You can say I'm stupid or whatever you think me in anyway. But I didn't do anything wrong.

I never said I have a boyfriend because I don't think we were so close that we can discuss about my personal thing. But I don't hide this thing on purpose. More importantly, nobody can say I'm not serious to him except him. Because both of us know how important and rare this relationship is. If I only look for a sexual relationship, then I probably just get one here. Only he knows what a girl I am.


Anyway, I'm still feeling sorry for whatever I've made you misundertood.


See? She's turning it around to make it look like MY fault. Like I was the one who didn't understand. Considering the flirting we did, there's very little chance that she didn't feel some sexual tension. I will admit, I could have flirted harder. I'll take responsiblilty on that much. But when you ask someone of the opposite out for coffee, and they agree, that's a date. That's how it is in western culture (unless you know for A FACT that you're friends or something else like that).

I think she's just acting this way because she can't stand the fact that I ended up denying her, a girl of that caliber not being used to getting denied. It's her way of defending herself. I will say her defense that she is Chinese, and has less than stellar English skills. So the cultural and language barriers could have contributed to this little mishap, which isn't at all her fault. And she's pretty young, still (again, out of her control).


What's going on here? Are women really as opposed to taking responisbility? Or am I just meeting all the wrong women? Or am I just being a picky asshole? Any and all comments are greatly appreciated!

Also, look for my new post on girls wanting to start as friends and then be lovers. Interesting shtuff.
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"I was NOT flirting! I didn't even tell her that I work in propane!"

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It is certainly not true that sex is like pizza: good even when it's bad. I'd rather have bad pizza than bad sex. I can always take care of myself after the pizza.

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Old 11-05-2009   #2
pottergnome
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See? She's turning it around to make it look like MY fault. <---um, i hope he leaves this post up there because objectively it sounds like HIS fault anyway, and he'll be made out to look like a jackass. The fact HE misunderstood DOES make it his fault.

I will say her defense that she is Chinese, and has less than stellar English skills. <<---what the feck does that have to do with anything relevant? If he knew her English was "less than stellar" he should've asked for clarification or gotten more details.

yeah...he probably thought it was a date and like she was interested in him when really she was being nice. It's probably part of her culture to be more submissive, forgiving, and very sweet and polite and not turn anyone down for anything, hence her acceptance for coffee.

and, "going to coffee" doesn't mean "date". It's a "date" if someone says it's a "date", otherwise, it's just "getting to know somebody."

and we know women who spend all day long apologizing. Is that what he wants? That's just pathetic.

And, in general, he seems to attract the self-centered girls. He isn't going to get apologies, or sympathy, or his way with them. They've had enough experience with guys where each one matters less and less. He needs to have a better screening process, and actually go get coffee with them without calling it a date and expecting them to drop everything for him. People meet others while dating someone sometimes, and maybe the new ones wind up being the reason they break up with the old one. He seems like he's the type of asshole a nice girl wouldn't date.

He comes off as an asshole with high expectations. Nice girls run away from him because he is creepy, sexist, a jerk, practically stalks the girls he likes, and disses on everyone else (this is also being noted from previous experiences and knowledge of his tales).

He needs to learn to be more considerate, especially if he's going to be dating girls form other cultures. HE may view "getting coffee" as a date, but he needs to realize that a girl from another culture might see it as just getting to know sombody. That's not their fault. And they don't HAVE to learn western Culture, they're private people too, and it's HIS own misunderstanding If he's so into women from another culture HE needs to do the work to get to know their background and way of life better before pursuing them so he isn't so disappointed and winds up making the wrong mistakes and pissing everyone off.

Also, it's rude and downright frowned upon to place blame on anyone from an Asian culture. He should also know this.

It was simply a misunderstanding. She admitted she didn't tell him because they had just met, he had NOT asked her for the details of her relationship status, and she didn't feel the need to solicit the information as she thought she was making a friend, hence the "getting coffee" and not the proposal for a "date".

He makes it seem like she's a slut and she asked him for sex. Which she doesn't seem to be saying whatsoever in her reply. I don' tknow where he got that idea, or why he assumed he would get any from her. She was probably being uber polite and not wanting to hurt him, and was interested in making a friend, seeing as she wasn't into him. It's probably her nature to be cute and flirty, as a lot of asian girls tend to have that persona in public for their "image". He should...already have known and been prepared for that. And he shouldn't take other people's information to heart and do the research himself and start accepting the blame more. He won't get anywhere if he keeps writing blogs about how women are the irresponsible ones who just want sex.
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Old 11-05-2009   #3
Bjorn Falkenstrom
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Women are more in touch with their emotions than we are, and therefore do not like creating bad emotions in the present. Unfortunently, this tendency, like many things you try to avoid, often comes back and bites them in their ham.
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Old 11-05-2009   #4
Spikey
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That sucks man and I can understand your frustration but there something you should realize. Just because a girl flirts with you and there is some sexual tension there doesn't necessarily mean it's on and poppin'. Guys and girls flirt with each other everyday. Sometimes they just like the attention or other times they are just practicing. I like to do it because its fun . No matter what the reason, flirting doesn't mean she has strong feelings for you. It just means she is interested and would possibly like to see where this thing you guys are developing might lead. To see what type of man you are.

What it comes down to is, you came on too strong too soon. You barely even knew the girl and you were already trying to talk to her about being in a serious relationship and chastising her for not mentioning things that were, honestly, none of your business.
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Old 11-05-2009   #5
The Kidd!!
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Women can only get away with what you let them get away with. If you read it right, go with your gut and don't doubt yourself. Women are fickle creatures, so even the most awesome of them all (i.e. me ) can have a woman totally enthralled with me, but then she still has feelings for a chronically depressed ex-boyfriend (that she is still in love with) who randomly pops up and she thinks that she can STILL change him. Not a whole lot I can do about that. That is an issue SHE has to sort, not I.

Bottom line: Just because it walks and swims like a duck doesn't mean that it will always quack.

Last edited by The Kidd!!; 11-06-2009 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 11-05-2009   #6
Vash
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Not all women are like that you just got unlucky. and it sounds like u got attached to the outcomes too much. Next time don't go into something with expectations, take it as it goes. For now just say fuck it and move on
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Old 11-05-2009   #7
thepokemontrainer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
See? She's turning it around to make it look like MY fault. <---um, i hope he leaves this post up there because objectively it sounds like HIS fault anyway, and he'll be made out to look like a jackass. The fact HE misunderstood DOES make it his fault.
Hmm. Sure. I feel that ignorance of my culture is perhaps reason for leniency, but doesn't excuse her outright. The failure of our interaction is just as much her fault, in my eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
I will say her defense that she is Chinese, and has less than stellar English skills. <<---what the feck does that have to do with anything relevant? If he knew her English was "less than stellar" he should've asked for clarification or gotten more details.
I must respectfully disagree. It is the responsibility of the speakers to make themselves understood. If I go to Russia, and my Russian isn't fluent, I must do my best to make sure I am understood. If I am misunderstood, it is my own fault. When I made this statement, I was acknowledging the fact that language and cultural barriers could have contributued to our bad interactions, which it probably did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
yeah...he probably thought it was a date and like she was interested in him when really she was being nice. It's probably part of her culture to be more submissive, forgiving, and very sweet and polite and not turn anyone down for anything, hence her acceptance for coffee.
I had much reason to think that this was a date. She showed signs of interest (flirty hitting, eye contact, constant digging for info, flirty texting, teasing). Given the nature of our interactions, I had no reason to believe that she wasn't sexually interested. Whether or not an outing with the opposite sex is a "date" is almost always implied by the nature of the interaction during the outing. It is almost never explicitly stated. Also, you are making assumptions about her culture. Are you Chinese? Have you lived in China for an extended amount of time? I assume you have not, so you cannot really say what Chinese culture is or isn't, or how a Chinese girl would react in any given situation.


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Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
and, "going to coffee" doesn't mean "date". It's a "date" if someone says it's a "date", otherwise, it's just "getting to know somebody."
I must respectfully call bullshit on this. Like I said, the nature of the outing and how the individuals interact with each other determine whether the outing is romantic or a "date". If what you said is true, then I have never been on a date. I have never explicitly stated to a girl that I was taking her on a date in my whole life, not even to my ex. Whether or not it is a date is implied and not explicit. It was the girl's flirty interaction with me that lead me to believe that she was going on a date with me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
and we know women who spend all day long apologizing. Is that what he wants? That's just pathetic.
Actually, I want to see a woman who will actually take her share of the responsibility in an ordeal, specifically in relationships and dealings with the opposite sex.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
And, in general, he seems to attract the self-centered girls. He isn't going to get apologies, or sympathy, or his way with them. They've had enough experience with guys where each one matters less and less. He needs to have a better screening process, and actually go get coffee with them without calling it a date and expecting them to drop everything for him. People meet others while dating someone sometimes, and maybe the new ones wind up being the reason they break up with the old one. He seems like he's the type of asshole a nice girl wouldn't date.
I agree with this (mostly). I agree that I should probably lower my expectations of women, because even I sometimes think that I may be expecting too much of them. I disagree with the assertion that self-centered girls are the main kind of girls I attract, as I have no tolerance for women like that and they get cut out immediately from my life. I've dated plenty of nice (and not so nice) girls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
He comes off as an asshole with high expectations. Nice girls run away from him because he is creepy, sexist, a jerk, practically stalks the girls he likes, and disses on everyone else (this is also being noted from previous experiences and knowledge of his tales).
I won't deny that I'm an asshole, and especially not that I have high expectations. No woman wants a second-class man, so why should I want a second-class woman? As far as your other assertions, how could you say those things? These assertions are baseless and you really couldn't know any real truth about me, seeing as you only know me through rumors and stories (I assume Asia was resposible for this cute little bit).


Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
He needs to learn to be more considerate, especially if he's going to be dating girls form other cultures. HE may view "getting coffee" as a date, but he needs to realize that a girl from another culture might see it as just getting to know sombody. That's not their fault. And they don't HAVE to learn western Culture, they're private people too, and it's HIS own misunderstanding If he's so into women from another culture HE needs to do the work to get to know their background and way of life better before pursuing them so he isn't so disappointed and winds up making the wrong mistakes and pissing everyone off.
I think this is mostly right. I agree that it would be good to learn about the culture of a girl to avoid basic mistakes. I wish there was a book called "How to Date Chinese Girls", but as far as I know, no such thing exists. But I doubt knowing or not knowing cultural tidbits is going to make a big difference in the end. In the end, it is going to be my heart and consistancy of my character that is going to make or break the interaction. Still, I must admit it might help. I must disagree with the assertion that she isn't obliged to learn about my culture. If I move to Japan, am I not expected to to speak Japanese, bow properly, and respect social hierarchies? Of course! I'm obliged to play the game their way when I'm there, and she's obliged to play the game our way when she's here. I would be expected to do the same if I was pursue her in China. It's only fair. Since she's here, the cultural ignorance is on her, not me, and I'm not obliged to play Chinese rules on my own soil.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
Also, it's rude and downright frowned upon to place blame on anyone from an Asian culture. He should also know this.
What the hell is this? Asians aren't allowed to take blame? Please explain this bullshit, because I clearly can't understand it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
It was simply a misunderstanding. She admitted she didn't tell him because they had just met, he had NOT asked her for the details of her relationship status, and she didn't feel the need to solicit the information as she thought she was making a friend, hence the "getting coffee" and not the proposal for a "date".
Yes, here was my biggest mistake. I didn't make my intentions clear enough to her. I should have been a bit more forward, and in retrospect, I can see where the sexual tension weakened a bit. However, though it is true I was not forward enough, she didn't really make it clear herself she wasn't looking for romance, which is why I felt later that she was leading me on. Like I said before, I had plenty of reason to think that she was interested in me, and she didn't make it clear that she had a boyfriend and/or that she wasn't interested in me. I was being deceptive, but so was she, but you and I both cannot really say for sure what she was thinking or what her intentions were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottergnome View Post
He makes it seem like she's a slut and she asked him for sex. Which she doesn't seem to be saying whatsoever in her reply. I don' tknow where he got that idea, or why he assumed he would get any from her. She was probably being uber polite and not wanting to hurt him, and was interested in making a friend, seeing as she wasn't into him. It's probably her nature to be cute and flirty, as a lot of asian girls tend to have that persona in public for their "image". He should...already have known and been prepared for that. And he shouldn't take other people's information to heart and do the research himself and start accepting the blame more. He won't get anywhere if he keeps writing blogs about how women are the irresponsible ones who just want sex.
This was bad on my part, and in retrospect, I can see how it could have come across as me being cruel and making her seem like a slut. But at the time, I was upset because I really did think she was leading me on/playing the field. I felt I needed to put my foot down, and express my disapproval of her methods of finding a mate, and show that I won't accept second-class treatment. I should have been more gentle with her on this, however.

In conclusion, I'm going to take exactly half the blame for this unfortunate blunder. I was not nearly forward and honest enough about my intentions, and I may have accidently hurt her feeling or degraded her unneccessarily in my writing to her. But she should accept the other half of the blame for not making her own intentions clear, and failing to understand our culture properly.
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"You make love like a woman, but you throw like a man"

-Charlie Sheen


"I was NOT flirting! I didn't even tell her that I work in propane!"

-Hank Hill

It is certainly not true that sex is like pizza: good even when it's bad. I'd rather have bad pizza than bad sex. I can always take care of myself after the pizza.

-Ginsengen
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Old 11-05-2009   #8
arcyaxiom
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Two things:
1: you may have misinterpreted in that situation, face it, it's a shit argument to then throw into a debate about how 'all women do xyz'

2: assuming you didn't, your real mistake was probably calling her out on it .. She's hardly going to reply and say "you are right, I wanted sex despite having a boyfriend, I didn't mean to lead you on" did you honestly expect that from her? If she was interested maybe she just wanted to have some fun with you, without seriousness, or maybe she wanted to see where it would go who knows she may have had second thoughts about her current boyfriend? Perhaps she just wanted some attention, seeing as he's so far away? A number of different reasons behind it really but if you were going to call her out on wanting some discretion, instead of her being blatantly open to a relationship like you were looking for, surely you could have just said "we're not looking for the same thing, I respect it" and maybe even go to coffee anyway as a friend? Or maybe just call it off? Do you really need to get upset over it though? It's not HER fault you want to have exclusive access to her from day 1.

Last edited by arcyaxiom; 11-05-2009 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 11-05-2009   #9
Kevin Stratocaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepokemontrainer View Post
In conclusion, I'm going to take exactly half the blame for this unfortunate blunder. I was not nearly forward and honest enough about my intentions, and I may have accidently hurt her feeling or degraded her unneccessarily in my writing to her. But she should accept the other half of the blame for not making her own intentions clear, and failing to understand our culture properly.
Its not that women fail to take responsibility for their own actions its just that pretty much everybody does this. It is good that you found fault in yourself but you have no place assigning blame to anybody. It is important to strive to take responsibility for everything in life that goes wrong. It is very rare that one can actually say they had no role to play and nothing they could have done would change the outcome.

Taking responsibility for all of your predicaments is very empowering. So just take this experience and learn from it.
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Old 11-05-2009   #10
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Okay, you need to listen VERY carefully to what I'm about to tell you. I feel your pain, but you will need to grasp these new concepts, in order to evolve to the next level:

1. Women do not operate on the logical level that men operate on.
2. Women often cannot articulate things in a logical way. They cannot even explain their actions sometimes, because they aren't connected to logical decisions.
3. Women will do anything to avoid discomfort, personal confrontation, or creating bad emotions in the present. (someone mentioned this one)
4. Don't take anything a woman does personally, because she cant help it.

Women are driven by totally different drives and emotions then us men. There might be a million explanations for what happened, and to be honest I didn't read your entire story because it is irrelevant.

I've been in so many situations where a women did something completely inconsistent, inconsiderate, illogical, or completely unexplainable... When I asked them to explain it, what they said was so unconnected to reality that it was clear to me... they arent operating in logical reality.

They are sensing things, reacting, doing whatever they feel is right in the moment, based on nothing other then instinct.

Hope this helps..

Last edited by Thunderduck; 11-05-2009 at 12:09 PM.
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